At a time when we need to be building this site some folk are leaving.
The reasons are, of course, many and varied; but among them are a lack of encouragement and support from other members with the accompanying feeling of being outside of the prevailing "clique."
If this community is to survive and thrive we've got to do better. I don't know exactly how to do this, and am open to ideas.
For myself, instead of confining myself to merely hanging with and supporting old friends, I am trying very hard to make new friends and collaborators. I realize this takes time and that's not something everyone has a lot of; but I think a little effort can go a long way.
Just 'cos I have known you online for nearly 20 years doesn't mean I won't be in a clique with you Mike. You and I are a clique. Same with Jack, and Bill. We are the old guys from MJ. Nothing is gonna change that.
If anyone believes this is a cliquish place here and now, they are mistaken. There is no activity anything like a MJ clique here. The sock monkeys are here. They are just not active.
Cliques at MacJams could produces hundreds of likes and adoring comments on a single post. These fake armies were used as weapons against people who possessed social or political views outside the normative clique values. This was five people, and perhaps 300 fake accounts. It involved the administration at MJ. There is nothing like that clique active here.
I have heard stories of clique behavior at old icomp as well. I do not pretend to know those details. Only that it had to do with popularity of posts as well.
People, that destructive behavior isn't happening here.
The site is designed, and very cleverly too, to provide protection against abusive behavior as that we know existed in the past at other places.
If someone self identified as a peerless player and failed to get the respect their ego demanded from the talent here, they might leave in an angry manner. That is a social issue but not one that arises from clique activity. I have been online since '99. I will let you know when the clique stuff starts to play. At the same time, I will not ask forgiveness because I support Bill and Jack. Why anyone would worry what our clique thought about them is absurd. BTW Bill is the leader. He hasn't spoken to any of the rest of us for years, gospel truth. He's a weird mastermind.
I understand your concerns, Mike. But i think Daugrin has a point (many). You cant help folks are leaving, they maybe were expecting too much, too soon ? The era of MJ or Icomp with hundreds of listens is gone, and not only here on IBandstand. Different times, and some - as Daug says - very restrictive "play count", probably for the best (if you listen to a song and you're not logged in, it's not implemented, etc). Let's say it feels more like a music club, where people come, play, say hi and enjoy the simplicity of it. Do we have to be more "positive" and "welcoming" to the newbies ? Yes, absolutely. It takes time, listens, be curious, and it takes some friendly comments. But do we have to do it even if we dont like what we hear ? That would be wrong and a mistake. Does everyone posting here wants constructive comments and be lectured on how they should mix and sound ? If they dont ask for it... dont bug them with our ears expertise (that is always relative anyway). Will all this be enough to make this site a "success" ? Probably not. Expanding means promoting. Have musicians and artists playing a wide range of styles, young and old... It takes more time, more efforts today than 20 years ago. So much "concurrence"... Today there is more than 2,000 songs uploaded, 231 artists. How many are active (like you) ? Let's say...30 max ? It's not enough, but it's good. It's a start. Patience...and kindness. Goes a long way.
Hi Guys, as a new member with limited music abilities I appreciate the feedback I've been getting back on my songs. I will be punishing you guys with many more songs as I have a catalogue 🤓 There will always be clicks between people and that's ok it's just human nature. As long as people aren't rude or discouraging to others.
I usually work by the 5 to 10% rule that if I get one comment on a song from every 5 to 10 listeners I'm happy. So I'm happy with the few feedback comments I get. The key is getting more listens which depends on how many active members there are, how many people like the type of music you are uploading and how good are your compositions.
Also more ways to interact would be good. For example if I comment on a song can someone reply to me in the public comments and I get notified? So far I o my get notified when there is a comment on my upload. Also, Is there a way of getting notified by email when favorite artists upload a song or when a song in my favorite music categories gets uploaded?
Also, a smartphone app with streaming radio stations and member messaging would be nice as websites are used less these days. Also does ibandstand have YouTube and other social media besides Facebook . I wonder if there is a way to partner with existing YouTubers who can maybe do reactions to some of the songs on here. I get that's a lot of work but if you can somehow generate an income from the site it would be awesome for you.
Music appreciation isnt what it was like anymore. Speak to bands who put out albums and ask them what are they getting from it. The only bands I knoiw doing well are ones who perform live or have already had a name and capilising on that, but that is very rare.
I guess what I am saying is dont expect too much support anymore with your music.
That way if you set the 'bar' much lower you wont feel so bad.
Thanks for posting Wyndsok. Yes - just like Daugrin said, there are some folks here, either from MacJams or iComp or both, from all over the planet, that have been collaborating online (and even occasionally meeting in person!) for nearly 20 years.
If I were to sum up what is different now... I'd say Time, and Choices.
Its a radical difference between "an explosion of vast choices" and "the same limited time." As least for me, the consequence is choosing to invest less time on iBandstand, relative to the massive other sources of music to go play/see/hear.
Back in the early 2000s, we didn't have nearly as much music available out there on Spotify, Pandora, Youtube, etc etc. These days most bass/guitar lyrics/tabs are online for "free" on youtube (and when the service is free you are the product :) Then there are the tv/movie streaming services, where we can now use shazam and save that cool new song by the band we have never heard of before to our Spotify playlist.
I had a friend tell me a few years back that some past bands we played in now have all our "CDs" available on all the usual streaming services. Heck the first time we tried to get on Pandora and Spotify we were summarily rejected :) My friend joked that now they will take just about anything... even us!!! So we can experince the joy of deciding how to split the 25 cents in streaming royalties....
Having just moved back to Oregon, I have been trying to get back into the local live music scene (open mics and learning songs, working with former band members, etc), as well as going to some great concerts. Consequently, I haven't been spending as much time on iBandstand as I would like. Your good blog here is reminding me: less social media, more online collaboration :) While still getting out to enjoy live music. Especially since its finally not raining as much here in the Pacific Northwest ha ha.
For new members, it will take time for folks to experience how cool it is to collaborate online and create interesting original songs, or create amazing covers of classics (like Dead Flowers!). If I am remembering correctly, its pretty scary to work on your first collaboration. And a challenge to get set up with all the tools of the trade. Getting tips on the best online music making tools was super helpful in the earlier days. Hopefully we will see more of those posts coming on iBandstand.
For people that have been around a while and blogged/listened/commented/collaborated on music sites, we will need to adjust and invest less time in the "other stuff" and more time engaging here at iBandstand. It will take time to re-prioritize, and start doing more blogging, sharing, collaborating, commenting. And dust off the audio interface, remember how to work around all the bugs if you are like me and too cheap to upgrade your gear (Sonar and Focusrite, I am talking about you).
As Dyl observed, we might not have as much engagement this time around. And... being an optimist I am hoping that over the next couple years we will build momentum here at iBandstand. It took a while for iComp and MJ to really get going.
Maybe something we can all try is to work on a collaboration with some folks we haven't worked with before, and see what happens. Also, rekindle some connections and get some new songs out there. Finally, keep posting some old nuggets from collaborations shared years past.
One thing I will say that hasn't changed... of the 231 artists and >2000 songs on iBandstand so far that Dyl mentioned, I have heard some awesome new songs and classic covers. And I am seeing new folks jumping in to collaborate, as well as long-time MJ/iComp collabotors that didn't work together in the "earlier" days starting to work together now. So that's all cool. And we can keep our expectations set low like Garni said, in these times where there is so much other content out there.
I will quote one more MJ/IComper Bosshook and just say "keep tune village growing" - with time, patience, kindness.
I know it feels that way. But folk do as they will. But, if you wish to be part of a thriving community, you need only do what you do when you communicate with friends. I am not in it for plaudits or success, but for connection. But, some are in it for success, and want results. All you can do is criticise appropriately. Even if success oriented people aren't happy with it, they'll value it when they become honest with themselves. In chemistry, we say "Under STP, an organism will do exactly as it pleases" (STP is Standard temperature and pressure)
