It seems AI is everywhere nowadays. In Logic, you can have an AI drummer, an AI pianist, an AI bassist, etc. ChatGPT can write lyrics. Other sites can generate song recordings whole cloth.
So... any thoughts on where to draw the line on what's allowed on this site?
Well, I was thinking the same thing. Just today I thought I had better curb my Ai ones. But then again I thought what about all the cover ones that are being allowed and uploaded also. Thats it for me now for a while. I'll be uploaded my own.
A good topic to discuss though. I think if enough human interaction also has been involved.
I can also prove that I never used that ChatGPT I put them all on cassette tapes. years ago with the dates i wrote mostly in 1984/5
. 90's/ for my two youngest Matthew and Sarah ... I still have them on the paper I wrote them on..All be it a bit yellow with age now.
I'm actually working on them on my cassette but got alot of hissing on them, I mainly only put them all on cassette so that I would always remember them if ever they got lost. I moved that often. Most are probably **** anyway lol
Personally I refuse to listen to a post if I suspect it is AI. I'm not sure you can regulate it though. Not sure where you woud draw the line.
Some look upon it as just another "tool." I think that is ridiculously naive, but to each his own.
To present something a machine has created as one's own is a bit of a cheat IMHO. I'm sure someone is able to offer a counter argument, but I don't give a da*n. For me it is more than a techinical question. It is a moral issue.
Is this site a venue for human creativity, or a place to display what machines can do when they replace human beings?
I do suggest it might be a good rule for folk to identify the musicians who contribute to their pieces, and if there is any AI to say so up front. Not to do seems to me a form of deception.
It is indeed not easy to draw a line ... what is simple "sound assistance" and what is not, like a complete production with instruments and vocals... I agree a simple 'sticker' (AI involved) would help. Is "flex pitch" AI ? i guess not... but it's already some sort of 'make me sound better than i do'. The basic idea of saying that lyrics and music are machine-created is a good start to know what is what, maybe ?
I have found in some experiments that I was able to create a nice Ai female vocalist. I did my own music and then upoaded the bass and drum tracks and the site created a vocal track, with a female singer, using my own lyrics. It is actually a lot of work but in the end it is rather interesting, although I have not really been able to get a suitable finsihed production. I see nothing wrong with using Ai in this sense. Some people have similar issues regarding MIDI and many are simply Luddites, Technophobes and "rockists", always unhappy. I am working on some projects and when I upload them I will be using an Ai vocalist but I will be performing all the instruments. I would not be interested in hearing an entire song created by Ai, however, I know people have uploaded song in the past made from all Garage Band/Logic loops. I think that I even worse.
My short answer to what I would like to listen to and what I don't
I want to enjoy a piece of art created by a human.
The longer answer is....
First let me say. Experimentng with "what the heck is this" and sharing a couple of examples is fun while it is a new unknown thing.
But what is AI?
AI is being abused a lot as marketing "wank" trying to sell music software which is smart and has cool algorithms but that does not make it AI. They are tools that automates tasks using algorithms and they go back to 70s and we all use them
Examples from simple to more advanced
Drum machines
Drum machines that can make a fill
Arppeggiators. Give them chods and they play fast and accurate
Samplers
Sampled instrument libraries. The advanced once can do legato and all sorts of articulations
Software modelled instruments. Both synth sounds and models of real instruments
Software instruments that can play phrases based on chords. Anything from guitars, horns to string sections
Pitch correction software. Can autocorrect to key if you wish
Equalizers and compressors that can dynamically change based on some desired reference track. Often marketed as AI but still just algorithms.
Software that can make chord progressions. It can show diatonic chords and chords that are closely related.
Synthetic voice software with sampled voice phrases you can put together
Synthetic voice software based on professional singers that have been paid to deliver a lot of vocal material creatng an advanced model and the software can turn written words into song with the pitch and strength based on midi. Synthesizer V is example
All I listed is software that enable a single person to create music which is still unique, artistic, clearly made by that artist and surely worth listening to.
Now we move into the AI world.
AI models trained on text, audio, and images from millions of sources, which can take a human input and create something new built from its model based on the input.
And this is where it gets difficult.
First there is moral aspects. Often the models are built on public but copyrighted material and the original artists get no compensation and gives no consent. I have a problem with that. It is not correct. At least not if you let the model build an entire piece of art and you publish it as your own. I have no worry about using such models to create ideas or sniplets of lyrics. That we also do as humans. We are influenced by those before us.
And second what do I want to listen to? I want to listen to art created by a human. You can use all the tools in the world. You can use AI to help with lyrics. You can ask some AI software to create a voice or create rhimes. As long as the overall creation comes from an idea that was yours, and you made an effort getting it created beyond giving an AI bot a few lines of instruction.
I do not want to listen to the result of "create a country song with female singer about broken heart and make her sound like Dolly Parton". I do not recall anyone posting something like that yet.
I personally use AI to make my song image because I do not consider it part of my artistic work. Copying an image from a webpage or creating with AI is same same. At least with the AI image I should not risk copyright issue.
Since a few months, the biggest streaming service ('Spo.ify') seems to allow AI generated content (mainly because there' much less royalties to pay to the creators - that are already super-low...), and there's some estimations around 10% of the worldwide new songs being AI (crazy, aint that ?). Be transparent (as @Wyndsok mentionned it) is probably the best. Clearly label AI-generated tracks and inform users when they’re listening to machine-made music, but also give users a choice to filter their preferences in profile to exclude AI-generated music, that won't appear in the new music section. Just an idea...
As I've made clear on a couple of occasions I view AI as possibly the greatest threat to humanity's future. It's just my opinion but it's one I'm passionate about. Of course, that's a wider concern with no necessary connection to the making of music. Passion can get in the way of one's reasoning, and it did in my comment.
Heartfelt thanks to two ibandstanders who contacted me privately about the matter.
So far IMHO Kenneth Lavrsen has given the best and most comprehensive answer.
At the end of the day, and for ME, the key remains transparency.
So I'll throw in my three cents (inflation you know...)
But first, let's talk about loops. How does everyone feel about using loops? There are a lot of ways that I don't see using AI as any different that using loops. Both loops and AI are tools that can be used to help people, from those who have no musical talent or experience up to professionals, create music. I still hear some of the original GarageBand loops pop up every once in a while in a song or TV/movie soundtrack, but you never see "80s Dance Bass Synth 04" in the song credits anywhere.
When I first started using GarageBand I'd do entire tunes of just stringing loops together. At least until I got the equipment I needed to actually start recording. But, once I started sharing music - MacJams, MacIdol, Alonetone (the early ones I can remember) - I would always point out if loops were used.
Now maybe AI is a little trickier. I use quite a few things that are considered AI (as Kenneth Lavrsen mentioned) - Drummer and Mastering Assistant in particular. But to me, they are tools that help me make a better song. Not really any different than usings a compressor, echo or reverb - lots and lots of reverb...
And I guess that kind of boils down what I actually consider AI to be. At least in my case of how I use it in music. It's a tool. Not good or bad. Positive or negative. But it gives me the ability to do some things I can't otherwise really do very well. (You sure don't ever want to rely on me playing the drums - unless you want the same unsteady tempo and very basic beat on every single tune.)
Now when it comes to using AI to create actual lyrics or music, or both, then it gets a little tricky. (While I use Drummer with pretty much every thing, I'm a little more on the fence about Bass Player and Keyboard Player, but it's probably because I can passably play both of those.) Music is very subjective. If I hear a song I like, I don't know how much of a difference it would make to me as to whether it was made by a person or an AI. I'd rather it be a person, but a good song is a good song.
But, I would prefer to know if it was a person or AI. (Is it live or is it Memorex?)
I'm not opposed to someone posting a strictly AI generated song here. To me, it would be an interesting experiment to see just how well an AI can do in creating something (I have not actually listened to much AI generated music). But, I also wouldn't want to open the floodgates and have the site innudated to the point where it starts to cover up those of us who do put their hearts and souls into their work. I'd definitely want people to be upfront about it. The use of completely or heavily AI generate music, lyrics or vocals should be made clear. Maybe even add AI Music as a genre people could use, if you're so inclined.
Basically what it comes down to for me is did someone use AI as a tool to enhance the creative process or fill in for an area where you are lacking (in my case playing drums and mastering) or are you using it as a substitute for the human creative process? If AI creation is fine, just make sure it gets labeled as such.
